tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC May 17, 2018 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT
liar. trump didn't want this case to enter the discovery phase. he petitioned the court to block discovery, but today this court in new york rejected the president's motion basically told summer go for it. her wish list is something to behold. she and her attorneys have subpoenaed mgm, demanding mgm turn over documents video or awe owe that features ms.zervos and trump talking about her. they're also subpoenaing the beverly hills hotel, they subpoenaed all the surveillance video from the hotel when she said the assault happened and subpoenaed the president himself, she and her attorney say they depend to depose him under oath. he has until may 28th to respond
to that subpoena. this has been a slow burn case compared to a lot of the other things that the president has going on. that does it for tonight. now it's time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell." >> we have a legal tribunal going on. jennifer rogers wants to talk about the summer zervos discovery. i can't tell you how many times i have heard about the mgm apprentice outtakes on that show, which is believed to be a gold mine of incriminating stuff of donald trump, and that's been protected until now possibly. >> this case, the summer zervos case has been in the background, it's been a back burner story in terms of national attentions because people didn't know if it was going to lead to any other thing, if it leads to discovery
and that stuff being turned over, there's no reason to think it's turned over under seal. if that stuff is given to ms. zervos and her lawyers that will be part of the public record. >> and they can thank the legal process against president bill clinton for lair fclarifying thr of the subpoena against a sitting president of the united states zblp this goes back to the paula jones case, kellyanne conway's husband, on the side of paula jones in that case. it's like a puppy dog eating its tail. president trump noted the one year appointment of the special counsel with this tweet this morning. congratulations america we are now in the second year of the greatest witch hunt in american
history. tonight politico is reporting more talk from rudy giuliani, which means it probably means absolutely nothing. giuliani is telling politico that, quote, donald trump's lawyers have gun planning a series of summer prep sessions for the president before a possible sit down for an interview with special counsel robert mueller. the planning meetings to be held during off hours at the white house and perhaps over rounds of golf at trump's private courses. giuliani said, will mirror the then gop nominee's 2016 debate preparation, in which aides briefed an impatient trump in several brief sessions over many weeks. giuliani said the briefings likely will begin after trump returns from a june 12th summit in singapore with north korean leader kim jong-un, if a mueller interview is agreed to. multiple news outlets tonight are reporting that paul manafort's former son-in-law
secretly pleaded guilty to charges in california in january and has been cooperating with federal investigators, including special prosecutor robert mueller, who has indicted paul manafort on multiple charges, some of which are scheduled to come to trial in july in washington. it is not clear just how involved paul manafort might have been with his son-in-law's business dealings in california which led to the secret indictment, which remains under seal. "the washington journal" is reporting that can jeffrey yohai who until last year was married to one of paul manafort's daughters pleaded guilty to conspiracy charges in in the central district of california, which includes los angeles, relating to real estate loans on properties in new york and california. he invested with mr. manafort on real estate deals in both states public records show. the "the washington journal" says he has met with special prosecutors from robert
mueller's office. and he has already spoken with officials from the special counsel's office and the new york attorney general's office in addition to the u.s. attorney's office in los angeles. and last night "the washington post" confirmed that michael cohen attempted to make another deal for himself during the presidential transition. he solicited a payment from the government of qatar in 2016 in exchain for access to and advice about the then incoming administration. the offer with qatar declined came on the margins of a december 12 meeting at the trump tower, cohen did not participate in the official meetings but spoke separately to a member of the qatari delegation. joining our discussion now, jennifer rogers, a former federal prosecutor, harry litman
is with us, a former federal prosecutor, and david corn, washington bureau chief and co-author of the new best-seller, "russian roulette". he's also an msnbc political analyst. and jennifer, i would like to begin with your observations about where this summer zervos lawsuit might take us. >> the important thing i think is not so much whether she ends up proving that he didn't tell the truth and defamed her and so on, it's the discovery. so as you were saying to rachel and she was saying to you, getting trump under oath talking about really anything is really, really dangerous for the president. so if she pushes ahead and is able to depose the president we're back in kind of bill clinton territory with trump is likely to lie and then he's exposed to all sorts of things, potentially critical charges whether that happens now or
after he leaves office, it's still a big danger for him. >> summer zervos doesn't have to go through this thing we've been watching that we can't quite tell what we're watching between the special prosecutor, rudy giuliani, the president on will he submit to an interview, will he not submit to an interview, do we subpoena him to a grand jury? you skip that and go straight to a civil subpoena for a deposition. >> he can still make a motion in the court to not testify because he doesn't have time, or who knows what he would say. it's going to be short cut. he doesn't have the same jeopardy as he does in the criminal proceeding so it would be wrapped up sooner than on the criminal side. >> another guilty plea in what seems unrelated matters with paul manafort's son-in-law, but any witness who's under pressure from the justice department is a bad day for paul manafort.
>> talk about pressure. in addition to everything against paul manafort, pretty much dead bang cases that mueller has put together in two different jurisdictions, he's now being squeezed very strongly from yohai who he was in business with in real estate, that's all in california. that would be a whole new set of charges, and substantial ones carrying big penalties on that side. and he's already being squeezed on the ukraine misadventure side from his former second in command, rick gates. that's independent of what they have on him. he is under now tremendous pressure that in some ways has redoubled. and he's going to trial soon. it's very hard to see how he, in any way, can get out of the vice. so the question is, can he with stand it and just be ready, essentially, to spend his life
in prison? it looks to a lot of people that he'll be -- he'll be looking to really cooperate as things go down the road. >> and david corn, rudy giuliani seems to have taken on the full kim jong-un role tonight in the mueller investigation. one day there's absolutely no way there will be an interview, he's going back to tonight to warming up to politico on the idea there could be an interview with the president and here's how we'll prepare him for it. telling another giuliani story about what -- about the interview that might be. >> you know, giuliani strikes me as what we might have seen if baghdad bob had become a lawyer. i don't think you can put any credence in anything he says about whether trump will sit down, what type of prep sessions they're going to do. i mean, what is it -- on the prep sessions, you know, are they going to put together a
cover story for trump? are they going to expect trump to remember what to say? this is a guy who went on msnbc news and said, yeah, i fired comey because of the russia stuff. he said it to the russians when they were in the oval office. so i think prepping trump for anything is really a mug's game. i think at the end of the day that no responsible lawyer could let a client like trump sit down for an interview. if there's any possible way -- any conceivable way you can prevent that. >> can i offer a quick follow-up? >> go ahead. >> i just want to say, i agree with david. giuliani has lost all credibility, in particular this pronouncement he made yesterday that an indictment is off the table, i think he's gotten ahead of himself. all that mueller's deputy came back and said is we're going to follow doj policy. but doj policy provides, at least potentially for an indictment, not to mention cocon
spore or the, that's assumed to be a fact, i think it's a mistake. >> rudy giuliani telling politico that a mueller interview is more likely again. but this is giuliani flipping back and forth on this point. >> i think that's right. i think at the end of the day, strategically they want the people to think the president is willing to do this, they don't want it to look like he's running and hiding. all of this, he wants to do it, we're not sure. i think it's part of the strategy, he won't do it, they want to make it seem like he will. >> go ahead, david. >> i remember before the campaign and after the campaign, trump said, of course, i will release my taxes, i want to do that. we're in the same position here, of course, i want to do this. we'll see if it happens. >> we have more russian roulette reporting from other sources. we had yahoo news reporting last
night about negotiations for a possible trump tower in moscow continuing in the presidential campaign, we have reports tonight indicating it went on a couple months maybe longer than that, up to about june possibly of 2016. >> yeah, these are great stories that advance the work that mike and i did in our book and other stories that have come out. to me, i don't think america has fully grasped the big point here. that is while donald trump was campaigning for president, while he was leading the republican pac, he had a secret deal, secret negotiations with russia, with russians, to build a tower there. now a project like that could not have gone forward if trump was being, say, hard on putin. he's telling the american voter he's going to put america first and supposedly speaking from the heart about what he wants to do with russia in terms of foreign policy, but he's hiding what's going on in terms of getting money from russia at this time. i think it's the biggest
conflict of interest we have ever seen in modern american politics and that hasn't resonated yet. i hope mueller is all over this deal. >> i want to consider the score card at this point, one year in to the mueller investigation, one person sentenced already. five guilty pleas already. 75 criminal charges brought so far. 22 people and companies charged. 19 people, three russian companies. what do you make of that score card after one year? >> it really puts the lie to this refrain from the right of, oh, it's been going on so long and we've got to wrap it up. they've been such a professional and solid operation and the results they have to show for it, just publically, completely swamp any kind of comparable
prior special counsel operation like whitewater or many others. that's again, we said it a million times, we should say it five million, that's not taking account of the obvious wealth of evidence he's already gathered from so many different sources that he has been upon till yous about not saying a word of. it's been a very solid impress sieve year. >> jennifer, do you think the pace of these charges and introducing these charges has been effected by the amount of criticism the special prosecutor is getting from the republican side? >> i don't think so. not yet. certainly if rosenstein is fired, if mueller is hindered in some way budget wise you could see things that would slow them down, i don't think that's happened yet. their pace has been efficient and that will continue until they get a roadblock in their way. >> thank you all for joining us in our first round tonight. appreciate it. coming up in the rewrite, a special rewrite on donald trump
calling people animals to the delight of many of his followers who call themselves christians. and harvard constitutional law scholar lawrence tribe will join us to discuss his new book on impeachment. if this is what you think a mercedes-benz for under $34,000 looks like... ...think again... ...and...again. the 2018 cla and gla, both starting at under $34,000. lease the cla250 for $319 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing. if you have a garden, weeds are low-down little scoundrels. draw the line with roundup. the sure shot wand extends with a protective shield and target weeds more precisely, right down to the root. roundup. trusted for over 40 years.
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to indict the president. >> i asked him specifically if they -- if they realized or acknowledged they didn't have the power to indict, both under the justice department memo, which gives them their power, in essence, confines their power, and under the constitution. and he -- well, he wouldn't answer. one of his assistants said they acknowledge they had to be bound by justice department policies. and the next day or the day after they clarified it for jay sekulow who was with me at the meeting that they didn't have the power to indict. they would write a memorandum and give it to the daeputy attorney general. >> andrew napoll ton know offered a different view. >> bob mueller never actually said that. some people in the room where bob mueller was not there questioned whether or not the
president can actually be indicted. he can be indicted and we know from two supreme court opinions he can be subpoenaed. he may show up at the grand jury, unlike bill clinton, and say i'm not going to answer. but he can be subpoenaed and compelled to come. >> joins us now, lawrence tribe, constitutional law scholar and coauthor of the new book "to end a presidency, the power of impeachment". an honor to have you here in the studio. >> great to be here. >> can you referee this question of can the president be criminally indicted? >> first of all i can say that mueller would not tell rudy giuliani that he has no power. somebody working on mueller's team might have said the guidelines say we can't indict a sitting president. that's not news. we know what the guidelines say.
but there is exceptions. if the if the did carry out his idea of machine gunning someone on fifth avenue or suppose he mobilized the military to attack the kids in the march 24th movement, clearly at some point the abuse of presidential power would be both indictable and impepable. >> we're not saying either one would happen. these are the examples law school classes come up with. you have to illustrate the point. to the issue of impeachment, this is one of those years that impeachment is talked about much more than normal. there wasn't any real impeachment bubble of any kind during the obama presidency but starting with the clinton presidency, it seems that impeachment started to feel like more of a political football, which no one really adjudged it to be during the nixon period. >> it became kind of politics as usual, even in the clinton
period -- sorry the obama period. obama himself ginned up some impeachment talk because it's a way of raising money for your side to have the other side talk about impeachment. one of the points we make in this book is that impeachment is too dangerous and serious and too vital a tool in extreme cases for us to just treat it as politics as usual. it has to be reserved for grave abuses of power. clep to kra si on steroids i think i called it earlier today. that is basically when the president is serving himself, his family, not the country, and then covering up what he does, whether it's with russia or china, as in the special treatment of xte or with qatar where there's this remarkable back and forth in our policy toward qatar depending on how
nice they're being to the kushner family. if all of that emerges as a result of the mueller investigation, and he's moving as your earlier guests said, very efficiently, very powerfully, then there may well emerge a consensus, a bipartisan consens consensus, that's important, that this president is simply too dangerous to the country to leave in power. but until then, although there should be investigation, it should be sober. we should really not treat impeachment as simply another way of criticizing a president, because you can't shoot at a president more than once. that is, this bullet had better be lethal if it's going to be fired. >> the bullet of impeachment? i remember talking to senators during the clinton impeachment trial in the senate, and they all expected to find, written somewhere, some precise legal guideline that would tell them whether the clinton charges met the definition of high crime and misdemeanor, and after a few
weeks of searching for that and their staff searching for that, the ones i spoke to started to say to each other, it's whatever we say it is. meaning because their decision could not be appealed to a court, whatever they voted on would be -- would be the definition of what was impeachable. >> in a crude sense that's true. but they also realize that they are helping to write the history of the united states. they couldn't look at themselves in the mirror, although sometimes i wonder how they manage even now, but members of the house and senate, republicans and democrats alike, couldn't look at themselves in the mirror if they said we think it's to have a stupid trade deal, or dealing with north korea. that's why the framers of the constitution used terms like
treason, bribery and high crimes. they didn't have a list in mind. they knew clearly they couldn't predict all the ways presidents might abuse power and become autocrats or tyrants. but they also knew they didn't want this power to be one used simply to express dissatisfaction with the prior election. it's not supposed to be a vote of no confidence. >> might it be the most important defining element of the impeachment description in the constitution is the requirement of a two-thirds vote by the senate? isn't that the founders' way of saying this is how serious it has to be? it has to cross party, you have to get two-thirds voting on this? >> that's right. when they wrote it, they didn't have political parties. they didn't predict that. so they thought getting two thirds might not be as difficult
as it has become. but now for all practical purposes with political parties running things you have to have a bipartisan consensus that there's been an abuse of power. it's clear an impeachable offense doesn't have to be a crime. the president who decides to pardon everybody who attacks his enemies would be -- we think the guy is horrible. >> all of this is in the book "to end a presidency" coauthored by professor lawrence tribe. thank you very much tonight. >> thank you, lawrence. >> really an honor to have you here. coming up, two trump scandals this week involving the president and his family in what appears to be using the government to make more money for the trump family. "new york times" reporterer thomas freedman will join us. ts
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it's going to be a very important meeting. the denuclearization of the korean peninsula of north korea. depuck. >> that was the president a couple weeks ago. here's the secretary of state on sunday. >> our ask is complete and total denuclearization of north korea and it is the president's intention to achieve that. >> have you defined denuclearization? >> total, full complete. >> that means dismantling, stopping all enrichment, getting inspectors on the ground.
>> the same deal we should have done with iran. >> all of that was enough for north korea to issue a statement saying if the u.s. is trying to drive us into a corner to force our unilateral nuclear aban document, we will no longer be interested in such diagnose hoge and cannot but reconsider to our proceeding to the summit. and today president trump appeared to gave by saying he didn't want to use the libyan model of denuclearization that national security advisor john bolton has been publically insisting the president will demand from north korea. >> the libyan model isn't a model that we have at all when we're thinking of north korea. in libya, we decimated that country. that country was decimated. this would be something with kim jong-un where he'd be there, he'd be running his country. his country would be very rich. if we make a deal, i think kim
jong-un is going to be very, very happy. i really believe he's going to be very happy. i think we'll actually have a good relationship, assuming we have the meeting and assuming something comes of it and he'll get protections that will be very strong. >> so what's going to happen to denuclearization? is the president already losing in his negotiation with kim jong-un? "new york times" columnist thomas freedman will join us next. ♪ most people come to la with big dreams. ♪
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korea that we know of. we have not been told anything. we're read stories like you are. we've heard certain things from south korea. but we'll see what happens. if the meeting happens, it happens. if it doesn't, we go on to the next step. >> joining us our discussion now, thomas freedman, columnist for the "new york times." his latest best selling book is "thank you for being late" tom freedman, can you translate for us where you think we are on the north korea summit as of tonight? >> lawrence, what is horrifying about the clip you showed of the president talking about the libya precedent is that he clearly does not understand what happened in libya. gida few, in 2003 gave up his nuclear weapons after we and the brits invaded iraq and afghanistan because he feared
that he might be next. then what happened was in 2011 there was an uprising in libya by factions which we, the united states and nato, our european allies, abetted which led to the overthrow and murder of gadaffi. the president clearly doesn't understand what happened there. because if you're the north korean leader, lawrence, you look at the libya example as horrifying. this guy gave up his nuclear weapons and even though he gave them up, nato joined in an attack on his country that led to the downfall of that leader. i don't know what he was talking about there. >> he ended up pledging support to kim to keep him in power. apparent apparently pledging support to keep a dictator in power if they reach an agreement on nuclear weapons. >> he's going to be rich.
we'll give him a trump hotel. >> there was a moment we didn't have on the tape he started to use the words syria, where it seems he meant to use the word libya and was confusing those two elements at the same time. but with john bolton saying it has to be complete denuclearization and north korea saying, absolutely not complete denuclearization, where do these talks go? >> lawrence, let's start at the beginning, okay. north korea has sold this carpet, denuclearization, at least three times to previous presidents. and the reason they kept selling it and reselling it is that building nuclear weapons is the main economic enterprise of north korea. generating that threat that it will go nuclear, develop nuclear weapons and the missiles to deliver them, has been the mechanism with which it has
shaken down the world for the financeable support that keeps the regime alive. i don't want to say it can never happen, but i find it highly unlikely that he will go for full denuclearization. i think the best you could hope for, lawrence, at least in the short term, is that he might agree to stop testing his long range intercontinental ballistic missiles that could hit the united states and maybe do some symbolic gesture on some nukes. he's believed to have about 60. the idea we go from 60 to 0 over night i think is highly unlikely. the missile thing can get very complicated for trump. if trump says we want you to stop building long range missiles that can hit us, our neighbors in asia, particularly japan, south korea, and taiwan, might say wait a minute, they
can have short range missiles that can hit us and not you and you can create a real fissure in our alliance. >> the deal you're talking about that seems in the realm of possibly sounds like something less than the iran deal negotiated by the obama administration. >> as untrustworthy and frightened as we were of the iranians, can you imagine, lawrence, the level of intrusive inspections you would need in north korea -- the iranians only sold this carpet once, the nuclear carpet. this guy sold it three times. can you imagine the evangelical -- level of intrusive inspections we would need in north korea to be sure they denuclearizationed? can you see them agreeing to that? i find that most unlikely. >> we had iran mapped where they were. north korea there's way too much guess work in that at this
stage. >> yeah we know a lot, but there's a lot we don't know. they kept surprising us with how far they've gone in their program. so as i say they would have to agree to a level of intrusion that country has never allowed. they barely allow reporters there. >> does it feel like we're headed for a trump moment where he simply declares a victory and claims he has achieved a denuclearization agreement, even though that has not been achieved? >> hard to believe he can get away with that. it's just too -- this is -- this is just too transparent. either you've got it or you don't. i think the most interesting question, lawrence. if i could have been a fly on the wall to two discussions the last month, it would have been kim jong-un and xi jingping, the president of china. you have to wonder what xi was
saying. my view is the chinese view north korea and their trade negotiations with trump as a single negotiation. they use north korea depending on what they're getting from trump on the trade negotiations. these are not two separate talks for them. i have a feeling trump is dealing with them the same way. you can almost almost xi jingping, the president of china, saying to the north koreans, two things, one we love you guys so much. we love korea so much we want to make sure there'll always be two of you. that is the thing the chinese fear most is a united korea. particularly a crew newted krora that's pro-america. and i can imagine xi saying to the north korean leader, look we got your back. you don't have to give up anything. keep a few nukes, always good to have a few nukes in the basement. >> tom freedman, thank you for your perspective on this.
always appreciate it. >> my pleasure. coming up next in the rewrite, donald trump calling people animals, and trump followers just love it. only botox® cosmetic is fda approved to temporarily make frown lines, crow's feet and forehead lines look better. it's a quick 10 minute treatment given by a doctor to reduce those lines. ask your doctor about botox® cosmetic by name. the effects of botox® cosmetic, may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be a sign of a life-threatening condition. do not receive botox® cosmetic if you have a skin infection. side effects may include allergic reactions, injection site pain, headache, eyelid and eyebrow drooping and eyelid swelling. tell your doctor about your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions, and medications including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. the details make a difference.
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we're stopping a lot of them. we're taking a lot of people out of the country, you wouldn't believe how bad. these aren't people. they're animals. we're taking them out at a level that hasn't happened before. >> roberto worked his way up from dish washer until he could afford to buy the place, which he did, he was married and raising a family when he became one of the animals who donald trump talked about yesterday and was deported. trump defenders claimed that the president was only talking about members of the gang ms-13, which is not true. he did not limit himself to gang members when he was describing animals yesterday. but today he did. >> ms-13, these are animals. they're coming into our country, we're getting them out.
when the ms-13 come in, i refer to them as animals, and guess what, i always will. >> here's someone donald trump has never referred to as an animal. the white supremacists who is accused of speeding his car into a group of people at charlottesville, virginia, he was arrested and charged with murder after he drove his car into that crowd and killed heather hire. donald trump has never killed the man who killed 17 people in florida anal animal. kim jong-un is suspected of murdering his brother and being part of a family dictatorship that has starved hundreds of thousands of north koreans to death and donald trump does not call him an animal. >> kim jong-un, he really has been very open and i think very honorable from everything we're
seeing. >> donald trump is wrong. there's nothing honorable about kim jong-un. nothing. but donald trump is right not to call kim jong-un an animal. kim jong-un is a person. a person who has done very, very bad things. calling people animals is an instinctual roar that comes from deep in the gut as the strongest language we can think of to condemn people. the history of human civilization is a slow collective march toward enlig enlightenment over instincts like that. religion and law have played large parts in trying to control our impulses. no one is an animal as part of our law. that is why convicted murders are rushed for medical treatment when they become sick in prison. no one is allowed to treat
anyone like animals, but american law is imperfect. and america's belief in their laws has always been imperfect. americans used to turn out in large numbers to make a mockery of the constitution and a mockery of the law by publically lynching black men, women, and children. thousands of them. who those spectators all believed were animals. and a lot of those people would not have been able to enjoy a lynching nearly as much if they thought they were lynching people. and so they smiled and laughed and chatted and made small talk and enjoyed the thrill of the sound of the snap of the neck because like donald trump they believed that the people they condemned were animals. there are descendents of those people who enjoyed those lynches living in those same states
where the lynchings occurred, the states that turned out and voted so solidly for donald trump. and there are descendents in those states, descendants of people who enjoyed those lynchings in those same states who are ashamed of what their ancestors did, what their ancestors believed, and recoil at the sound of people like donald trump calling people animals. such is the nature of the stutter step of human progress. no one would condemn donald trump calling people animals more than jesus christ would. christianity is filled with teachings aimed at stifling our gut instincts. turn the other cheek. no country has made more of a mockery of religion, especially its historically dominant religion, christianity, than the united states of america has. virtually ever enthusiastic attendee of a lynching in
american history was a christian, and many of them were relentlessly determined haters of other christians. many of them were christians who believed that catholics were animals simply because they were catholics. everyone can now see how perverse those forms of american christianity were and how perverse was their belief that the people they were lynching were animals. historians and future christians will look back on the president of the united states today calling people animals 50 years from now, 100 years from now, and they will feel something similar to how we feel now looking at those lynching photographs. these aren't people. these are animals. you will never be able to forget that donald trump said that because he promised us today that he will always keep saying it, and you know that he will,
and you know that his rally audiences will cheer him for it every time he calls people animals, every time. donald trump is clearly the least religiously literate person in the history of the american presidency. >> i'm a religious person. shockingly because people are so shocked when they find this out. i'm protest ant, i'm presbyterian. i and i go to church and i love god. >> donald trump doesn't go to church. donald trump plays golf. and he has no idea that the single most important concept in the religion he claims as his own, which was at the founding of christianity one of his most revolutionary concepts, is that god lives in every person, every person. and that is the concept that prevents christians who actually understand christianity from ever equating people and
animals. here's a trick question for donald trump. who said, whatever you do to the least of my brethren, you do to me? another trick question for donald trump, next time he's publicly showing off his christianity is, can you quote a single thing that jesus christ ever said? for i was hungry, and you gave me something to eat. i was thirsty, and you gave me something to drink. i was a stranger, and you invited me in. i needed clothes, and you clothed me. i was sick and you looked after me. and i was in prison, and you came to visit me. if you went to catholic schools like i did, you memorized passages like that. you memorized those words of jesus christ, and you remember them forever. but like everything else that students memorize, not all students understand those words. and so there are christians
today who are insisting that donald trump is absolutely right to call gang members animals. but to believe that donald trump is absolutely right, then you have to believe that your religion is wrong, that your religion is wrong about those people who donald trump calls animals and that god does not live in those people and that those people never have been and never will be the children of god. and on this one, on this one, you christian followers of donald trump have to choose. it should be an easy choice. jesus christ did not say, i was in prison, and you came to visit me, but you did not visit these ms-13 gang members in prison with me because these are animals. so you christian followers of donald trump have a choice tonight because the words of donald trump and the words of jesus christ because no matter
how hard you try, on this one, no matter how much you torture yourself into trying to rationalize and manipulate donald trump's words, you cannot manipulate the words of jesus christ in the new testament. and on this one, it is absolutely not possible to believe the words of donald trump and the words of jesus christ. the sun is shining so why binge in here, when you can do it out there. with this clever little app called audible. you can listen to the stories you love while doing the things you love, outside. everyone's doing it she's binging... they're binging... and... so is he. so put on your headphones,
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time for tonight's last word. >> trump also complains that he needs better tv lawyers to defend him on cable news. jared, jared, get me matlock on the phone. what's that? what's that? he's dead and never really existed? that -- that's a mystery. get me mrs. murder she wrote. no. get me columbo. who does trump think is a tv lawyer upgrade? former new york mayor rudy giuliani, seen here in a community theater production of nosferatu. giuliani says he and trump are
in lockstep on strategy. in fact, he says of his relationship with trump, we're on the same wavelength. yes. they're so close, it's like they finish each other's prison sentences. but -- wait. >> stephen colbert gets tonight's last word. "the 11th hour" with brian williams starts now. tonight a guilty plea from paul manafort's ex-son-in-law, and reuters reports he'll cooperate in other investigations. plus rudy giuliani says it looks more hopeful tonight about a sit-down between trump and mueller. and there's an interesting theory afloat as to where interview prep may take place. and new reporting tonight from "the washington post." trump joins push by allies to expose an fbi source. phil rucker standing by with the late breaking details as "the 11th hour" gets under way on a thursday night. and good evening once again from our nbc news headquarters here in new york.